(Ch 4) Explain the following quote and the implications about Victor's character that it reveals:
"Learn from me, if not by my precepts, at least by my example, how dangerous is the acquirement of knowledge and how much happier the man is who believes his native town to be the world, than he who aspires to become greater than nature will allow" (Shelley 47). in my book.
I feel that Victor is telling us to learn from his mistakes. Implying that he has learned more than any human should know. He may have made a great discovery, but it turned out to be disastrous. He explains that knowing too much is "dangerous" and we will be "happier" by not trying to go beyond our limits, or our "native town."
ReplyDeleteI think that's interesting. What about the part "aspires to become greater than nature will allow?"
ReplyDeleteAnyone???
I think this quote is, in a way, simply stating that ignorance is bliss. It says that "much happier the man is who believes his native town to be the world" which means that one is happier if they content themselves with the basic knowledge of their own surroundings and not burden themselves with wanting to know the intricacies of how the universe works. I can say from personal experience that I would be much happier if I could just be content the basic knowledge of my "native town" and not have to learn more about it at school... However, humanity just isn't content with being ignorant.
ReplyDeleteI believe that the part "aspires to become greater than nature will allow" alludes to the strides being made in modern medicine towards genetic engineering, cloning, etc. He is questioning the moral and ethical question that has been asked time and time again for years, should we clone and genetically enhance humans just because we can? It is in this way that they try to "become greater than nature will allow", by trying to make humans better through science.
Cloning seems to be a bit of a stretch in this case regarding aspirations towards becoming "greater than nature will allow." Shelley wrote the book in the first quarter of the 19th century. This quote seems to represent a classic opinion that persists in and out of social and popular discourses during any time of great scientific, intellectual, or political change (all of which were occurring during the time Shelley wrote Frankenstein). That is, the fear of somehow over-stepping the bounds of appropriate human behavior into the realm of God or deity. The mentioning of cloning regarding this topic actually suggests that cloning represents at least one of the main social/popular fears of "playing God."
ReplyDeleteFurthermore, Shelley couples this (sometimes legitimate) fear of scientific advancement with a pastoral notion of wishing to know not past the bounds of one's own hometown. This embodies yet another popular sentiment during times of great social upheaval: the wish of return to "simpler" times where religious/folkloric wisdom sufficed for most decision-making situations rather than the complex web of relationships that accompanied the establishment of industrial capitalism during the time of Shelley and the writing of Frankenstein.
This statement (and one could make an argument for the novel as a whole) seems to suggest a metaphor for fear of social, scientific, and political change in the world. That is, the fear that our own "advancement" will, in the end, become a proverbial monster despite our good intentions. Given the current environment, Shelley's cautionary tale seems not too far off from reality.
NOW THIS is more like it!!! Way to go anonymous!! You hit the proverbial nail on the head!! Thank you for THINKING before posting some lame comment. You are clearly brilliant in your own right. ;)
ReplyDeleteOkay, Plato believes we should strive to achieve the higher knowledge- as evidenced by his Allegory of the Cave. Does Shelley disagree with Plato? Or is Plato not concerned with the "over-stepping the bounds of appropriate human behavior"?
ReplyDeleteI don't think Victor was just concerned with the achievement of "higher knowledge" rather he wanted to become the higher knowledge...
ReplyDeleteNot to say the same thing as Preston, but I agree that Victor is stating ignorance is bliss. When he says "dangerous is the acquirement of knowledge and how much happier the man is who believes his native town to be the world", I believe that Victor is explaining that the harder you strive for knowledge, the less happier you are. Thus a person must be content with their surroundings and the gifts God has given them. The second half of the quote "than he who aspires to become greater than nature will allow" is a warning to not let the search for knowledge consume you.
ReplyDeleteTo Ashlyn - I do not think that Plato has any concern for "overstepping bounds."In fact, I believe that Plato would endorse much of what we would consider an overstepping of bounds. Allegory of the Cave doesn't relate exactly to Frankenstein, but there are connections. Victor would caution against the "ascension" that Plato's Socrates refers to; indeed, Victor would say that it is better for everyone if we remained as Glaucon, ignorant and safe.
ReplyDeleteThe “acquirement of knowledge” can be dangerous on several levels. First, it can be dangerous to the acquirer – one need only consider Galileo and the punishment he received for destroying ignorance. Secondly, it can be dangerous to those around you. To refer to more modern sources of media, anyone who has ever seen a spy movie knows that the best way to keep someone’s mouth shut is to get at the people they care about. Thus, those who are not involved in the knowledge become part the destruction it can cause. Finally, knowledge can be, or at last, perceived to be, dangerous to a society, and can cause unrest and death. Some people could say that fewer people would have died had America never revolted. If the Popes of the Dark Ages had never known about the Middle East, then the Crusades may never have taken place. It is with knowledge that decisions are made, and these decisions can lead to death and destruction. Again, not always – this is just one way that knowledge can cause sorrow.
Nature, and societies, have a way of balancing themselves, of achieving equilibrium, and new knowledge, whether detrimental or beneficial, throws off that balance and causes earthquakes that don’t stop for a long time.
Now, the second part of the quote can refer to something else entirely. To me, this brings to mind the concept of pride. I consider Victor to be, at least at first, a very prideful man. It is not an unreasonable pride; he is very intelligent, but it his is pride in himself that permits him to play God and cause so much horror. Nature can also be referred to as God in this quote, and when one dares to infringe in Nature’s territory, there are consequences.
The first part of the quote is intriguing because it seems to imply that we should learn, at the very least, from the example that Victor sets. the reason that he feels the need to resort to this is because he seems hesitant to believe that people will learn from the general rules or "precepts" set forth. But, i think it is important to take into account the context of this quote. Victor is not saying do as he did, but to not do what he did because his actions led him down the path of misery.
ReplyDeleteI think that the message from this quote, especially the last part of the quote where he says "aspires to become greater than nature will allow" represents fear of change or interfering with our roles as humans. Shelley seems to believe that our role is to be passive participants in society, we should avoid trying to make such drastic changes in the way that nature works, and to interfere in such affairs is to take on a role that is not ours. Not only is it not our role to try and become greater than nature allows, but Shelley seems to believe that that would be dangerous. I think that this fear is most commonly seen when new changes are proposed in the status quo, changes that would radically shift the way our world operates.
It's almost as if Victor wished he had never learned what he knew about the creation of life. I think that the quote "how much happier the man is who believes his native town to be the world" is not literal, but rather relates to how humans view themselves in the world.
ReplyDeleteI think the important thing that this quote highlights about Victor's character is that he is willing to be remorseful for his mistakes. He is able to recognize that his acquisition of knowledge put him in a position of power that is dangerous and instead of trying to pass that knowledge on to others, he recognizes it is his duty to ensure nobody learns what he has learned.
-In my opinion, Victor wants us to simply be encouraged by him through the example he sets for us. He wants us to “learn” from him.
ReplyDelete-I agree with what Shelby says above. She makes a really good point. It seems like Victor is trying to tell us that it is no problem to make mistakes that we should learn from him to not make the mistakes he did. Often times, we find ourselves to be more content when we are not focused on our ignorance. This quote, is from my understanding, a way for Victor to express that it isn’t good to know too much about something, (because it’s dangerous) we need to work with what we know already and not worry about seeking more than we need.
I really love this quote, because I feel that it is very telling of human nature. Victor seems as though he never wishes he had gained such knowledge, and regrets the fact that he made many mistakes. He is saying that sometimes knowledge is better left unsaid. I do not believe this had so much to do with scientific knowledge as much as the fact that HE was able to create such a being. It was a matter of confidence in his science and the fact that such an idea could be accomplished rather than the actual tools to accomplish it.
ReplyDeleteThis is relatable to the reader because in many situations, you find yourself regretting past mistakes, or wishing you never knew something that may have caused you to act a certain way. Every person goes through feeling like this, so for Victor to voice his guilt and frustration in such a way causes.
This quotes tells a lot about Victor and how he looks at himself. He is telling us to not make the same mistakes as he did. He wasn't satisfied with life the way that he knew it, instead he wanted to learn and discover new things. In this, he began to create Frankenstein and in doing that, he caused all kinds of problems. For so long society has told us that the more inquisitive we are, the better, but here Victor is telling us to accept life the way it is and not to question how things work so intently.
ReplyDeleteThe beginning part of the quote explains to the reader what is a simple statement that most of us tend to believe, that being "ignorance is bliss." I know that this has already been stated above by others such as Preston and Joe, but I tend to agree. I also would agree with Jose on his view of this quote which he explained in a different post that it is a statement equivalent to "curiosity killed the cat."
ReplyDeleteThere are some things of this world that we were meant to never understand until we actually get to meet God and ask him about it. One of those things, I believe, is the creation of man. Victor crossed a metaphorical line that one is just not supposed to cross, he created a being that lived in a world in which he did not belong and the price he payed for that was everlasting sorrow.
This statement is also foreshadowing the future events that will transpire, such as Victor's sadness after he finally achieves his goal of such a great knowledge as the creation of a "man."
Most of these posts are implying the same thing in the sense that Victor wanted us to learn from his mistakes. I feel that in this quote Victor is stating the obvious by conveying to us the whole "with great power comes great responsibility" thing but I came up with a different take on it. If you remember Victor at the beginning of this novel you find him in a sheltered environment, up until the point where adolescence kicks in and overrides his fathers opinion on philosophy and takes it upon himself to learn even more about it. As teens or just humans in general we all possess the urge to do what were told not to do; the choice we make can go either way. In Victor's case he made a decision to obtain full knowledge and break boundaries once creating the "monster". Although he says it is "dangerous, the acquirement of knowledge...and greater than his nature will allow..." to almost put a sense of fear in us I remember the character of Victor in the beginning and feel no sympathy because it was his nature that got him here. After reading the "Learn from me, if not by my percepts, at least by my example..." in a backwards sense, I found this trying to tell us to do the opposite, which would be TO do and obtain that higher knowledge therefore leading us to this same predicament and sense of emotion that Victor is possessing. Being that Victor is a selfish person I do not find it hard to comprehend that he would want us to feel what he was feeling hence getting us to make the same mistakes.
ReplyDeleteI agree with hope. This quote is certainly foreshadowing the effects which Victor's great knowledge led to. From this quote, one can conjecture that Victor insinuated that he knew too much, and he is warning his readers that great knowledge doesn't always bring happiness. This quote also suggests that Victor wishes he hadn't been so curious, and so knowledgeable; it seems to me that he almost envies ignorant people.
ReplyDeleteJosh, you say, "Shelley seems to believe that our role is to be passive participants in society, we should avoid trying to make such drastic changes in the way that nature works, and to interfere in such affairs is to take on a role that is not ours." I disagree.
ReplyDeleteThough I think you are correct in saying that Shelley does not want us to push the boundaries of nature, I do not think she wants society to stall progression and remain "passive." In other words, I think you take her message a step further than it actually is. The novel does not condemn knowledge, education, and innovation, but rather criticizes the tendency for innovators to push the boundaries too far. I highly doubt that Shelley would oppose the discovery of penicillin or the dawning of organ transplants. However, I believe she would oppose something like stem cell research or cloning. Shelley is criticizing the act of "playing God," not the act of making the world a better place.
Victor has fallen into the trap of Adam and Eve. He ate of the forbidden fruit of knowledge, or basically, found a How To Make A Human For Dummies book, intellectually. Without questioning whether or not this knowledge was safe or beneficial to society, he went with it and made his own creation, completely blind to the needs the creature would have upon its awakening.
ReplyDeleteI also think this statement is telling of Victor's sentiments towards his actions. There is a tint of bitterness towards Nature in the last phrase, almost as if he considers Nature to have disallowed him from fully understanding her. (Her referring to Nature) He speaks of Nature as if she is something like a parent - a driving, controlling force over the earth that dictates the motions of men. A God, in a sense. Knowing this presupposition that Victor acknowledges Nature as an ultimate authority speaks much to his reasoning for his speedy decision to create a man. Because Nature allowed him to discover the root of life, how to light the wick of a human being, he considered it, not only possible, but encouraged! A thing to be done immediately. Nature obviously allowed him the information, so why discard it as immoral?
Later in the story, Victor certainly discovers that the availability of intellectual resource and ingenuity accompanies a great responsibility towards mankind. This statement evokes a consistent wariness and respect towards the force he previously considered dominant yet distant from the fresh perspective of a man confronted with his wrongs by his equals.
Josh - I most certainly agree that Victor wishes he had never created life! Even if one could make an argument for the benefits that came as a result (I'm not sure what they would be!) Victor definitely personally wishes he had never created the creature.
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